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Amylf1: Debbie... will you bang your gavel... to call our meeting?
Rhyssa2:    Hi room.
Rhyssa2:    The old clock has just chimed 6:00.
Rhyssa2:    Are we ready for the eWorld fiction Writers Group regular meeting?
RMZWRITER:  yeah!!! 
RMZWRITER:  cheering, too!
Amylf1: :::::::::::hi al...::::::::
AlPerryNC:  Had trouble getting to AOL. Sorry.
Trina Pink: Hi, Al!
Sushiwritr: Welcome, Al.
AlPerryNC:  Hi, Trina. Long time no see....
RMZWRITER:  Good Evening, Al  : )
Rhyssa2:    Amy it's all ours.  I'll start IMing to let people know what is
Rhyssa2:    Oh, and Hi Al, long time no see.  Boy you look great. :)
Amylf1: well... tonight... we're lucky to have a familiar member to talk with
Amylf1: AlPerryNC...
Amylf1: we'll be on modified protocol tonight...
Amylf1: Al will share his experiences with us...
AlPerryNC:  Hello to so many good friends...and new members, too. Thanks for
the invite.
Amylf1: Please type a (?), and wait to be called w/your question...
Amylf1: Al, Judy sends her apologies...
Amylf1: she couldn't make it...
AlPerryNC:  Tell her I missed chatting w/ her.
Amylf1: she wanted to be here...
Amylf1: shall we begin?
Amylf1: could you hold your comments please?
Amylf1: Al.. how about giving us a short rundown of your background as an
AlPerryNC:  Ok, well, have been editing, mostly non-fiction, for 40-plus years
AlPerryNC:  For the last 20, in my own business
AlPerryNC:  OK, maybe to start ... any questions what the role of an editor?
Trina Pink: ?
Amylf1: Trina.. go ahead
AlPerryNC:  Yo, Trina.
Trina Pink: One of the issues I deal with most is...do I write to suit myself
or write for an editor?
Trina Pink: What does an editor say about that?
AlPerryNC:  My spin on it. First, strictly for yourself.
AlPerryNC:  Then, know what you want the editor to do for YOU.
TidlPom:    ?
Amylf1: does that answer your question.. Trina..?
AlPerryNC:  Job of editor is not to make your work better, but to help it
achieve its purpose: sell, etc.
Trina Pink: Yes, thank you.
AlPerryNC:  Yes, TidlPom
NAJURY: Hello all
Amylf1: Tidl.. your next...
TidlPom:    I am interested in current trends in mysteries -- plot versus
character driven, given the
TidlPom:  topic tonight
TidlPom:    what do you see currently
AlPerryNC:  Outside my expertise, but my preference goes with plot.
Amylf1: Tidl?
Amylf1: any more comments?
TidlPom:    Thanks ń Iíll listen
Amylf1: Al... I have a question about the relationship between
AlPerryNC:  Shoot.
Amylf1: can you elaborate on that...
Amylf1: what usually happens...
AlPerryNC:  Sure. It is a terrible relationship, and frequently fails.
AlPerryNC:  We writers are very sensitive about our work... as we should be.
Amylf1: can you share  experiences with us...positive and negative...
AlPerryNC:  We are suspicious of editors, who have not suffered the torments
we have suffered.
Cafe Mom:   {{{{{{Al}}}}}
AlPerryNC:  Hi, Leslie!!!
Trina Pink: Leslie!
AlPerryNC:  Yes, negative side first: I worked with a writer for about two
years. Really thought...
Cafe Mom:   Hi you guys...sorry I'm late.
Cafe Mom:   {{{Trina}}}
AlPerryNC:  I was being a good editor, and helpful. Then one day....
AlPerryNC:  He blew ... really blew ... told me where to go ...poured out
every grievance...
Berrins:    Hi y'all  ((Ditto- sorry I was late}}
AlPerryNC:  saved up over two years. Sheesh. I really hadn't helped him
--just "fixed" his work.
AlPerryNC:  I learned from that. Hope he did.
Nanceeeee:  ?
AlPerryNC:  So editors and writers must establish some kind of
understanding... common ground.
AlPerryNC:  Yes, Nanceeee?
Nanceeeee:  Thanks for coming tonight, Al.  What are the most common
complaints writers have about
Nanceeeee:  editors AND do editors stifle creativity as some authors believe,
or enhance it?
AlPerryNC:  Most common gripe is that editor tries to impose own STYLE.
Nanceeeee:  How true is that?
AlPerryNC:  I think it's fairly common, sad to say. That's why writers need
tough skins and persistence.
Amylf1: Nanceeeee... does that answer your question..?
AlPerryNC:  Editors are like other types: good ones help us become more
Nanceeeee:  It answers part one, sadly enough......
Amylf1: anything more Al?
AlPerryNC:  I gave negative side. Positive side when writer sells work you
have helped her or him adapt
Amylf1: Agatha... you're next...
AlPerryNC:  Good editor takes the time to find out who YOU are and what you
are trying to create...
AGATHA K:   does my manuscript have to get past an associate before an editor
reads it?
AlPerryNC:  Yes, in the places I am familiar with. Screeners are necessary,
unless you have an agent...
AlPerryNC:  ...or another way in.
Amylf1: can you describe the process so we understand it..
AlPerryNC:  First, what is purpose of the work? Sometimes, the writer has
trouble explaining...
AlPerryNC:  Then, writer and editor should (ideally) agree on priorities for
editing. Focus. Needs. Etc.
Berrins:    ?
AlPerryNC:  I'll hold off and answer Berrins. Hi!
Amylf1: how about Tammy next?
RMZWRITER:  Are there any similarities between a mentor and a editor?
AlPerryNC:  Sorry. Missed her ?
RMZWRITER:  ? above mentor/editor
Jfireagle:  ?
Amylf1: Al... can you answer Tammy's question?
AlPerryNC:  Yes, an editor can be a mentor and vice-versa, but I'm talking
more about the formal process
AlPerryNC:  Jfireagle?
Berrins:    In what ways does the style of a journal effect how you suggest
changes to a piece? (Hi!)
Jfireagle:  I've been told that 90,000 is max for a first novel - true, false,
AlPerryNC:  Please clarify your query, Berrins. Sorry.
AlPerryNC:  Money, or words, eagle?
Jfireagle:  Is the statement true , false or does it depend on the mss?
Berrins:    I'm assuming that a publication wants to affect a particular
style to attract a specific audience
Jfireagle:  words
Buchemo:    ?
Berrins:    (I'll hang back until Jfire's done)
AlPerryNC:  Some pubs focus heavily on style, you're right. Most go for
subject (or author credentials).
Jfireagle:  90,ooowds./
Amylf1: Al.. how about finishing up JFireagle's question... since you started
to answer it... then finish with
Sushiwritr: brb. server will be down.
Jfireagle:  ?
AlPerryNC:  Jfireagle, that may be true now. I doubt it, though.
Jfireagle:  thank you
Amylf1: Okay.. Roger... can you re ask your question..
Berrins:    If you don't have any credentials, what counts more; style or
subject? Or does that depend
AlPerryNC:  Depends a lot on the publisher, would be my opinion.
Berrins:    on the publication?
Berrins:    That's it! GA......
AlPerryNC:  What counts more is impact. Might be style, but more likely
Amylf1: Buchemo...you're next
Buchemo:    Is it worth the effort to send a manuscript over-the-transom, or
is an agent necessary?
AlPerryNC:  Again, I'm just an editor. When I finish my own manuscript (yes,
editors want to write)...
AlPerryNC:  I will throw it over the transom, peddle it to agents, hire
flacks, beg, whatever.
Amylf1: does that answer it for you, Buchemo?
Buchemo:    yes
Amylf1: Agatha...
Amylf1: you have a question..
AGATHA K:   If  a bestseller comes out with a plot similar to mine, do I burn
the manuscript?
AlPerryNC:  LOL. No, just change the setting. Jaws 2 sells.
AlPerryNC:  Besides, how many plots are there, anyway?
Ruth Sil:   ?
Amylf1: Ruth...
Ruth Sil:   How does an editor charge?
AlPerryNC:  By the pound (of flesh) .... No, seriously...
Buchemo:    ?
Jdfogg: (LOL)
Ruth Sil:   :-)
AlPerryNC:  If your piece is accepted for editing, and it's not a vanity
house, no charges
AlPerryNC:  You can hire free-lance editors, but you are probably better off
finding an honest friend
Berrins:    Vanity house?
Jdfogg: (where you pay them to publish your work)
AlPerryNC:  And that's not as easy as it sounds. We writers hate criticism.
Berrins:    (thanks_)
Jdfogg: :-)
Amylf1: Buchemo...
Buchemo:    What is the proper method of protecting your work from theft after
you send it out? Ruth Sil:  Yes, almost finished about 100,000 Mainstream
yachting adventure novel.
AlPerryNC:  Copyright notices on the work. Send only to reputable houses or
AlPerryNC:  Hope to see it on a bookshelf soon, Ruth...
Amylf1: Agatha...
Ruth Sil:   Thanks  ME TOO.
AlPerryNC:  Also, Buchemo, keep copious dated notes about your work,
including all (dated) drafts.
Shebajab1:  ?
Amylf1: fiction writers group members... do any of you have questions for Al?
AlPerryNC:  BB update, anyone?
Jdfogg: ?
Amylf1: shebajab..
Shebajab1:  how common is theft?
AGATHA K:   I'm a newbie. What's the advisability of putting work online?
Amylf1: sorry Agatha...
AlPerryNC:  Hmmm. Outright manuscript theft: rare. Idea theft: common. We
call it research.
Shebajab1:  heh
Berrins:    :-)
Buchemo:    How can you determine reputation? Is there a list or can you
recommend a publication?
Rhyssa2:    (Al - AZ 48 KY 47 7 minutes left)
Amylf1: can you all wait to be called?
AlPerryNC:  Thanks. My team (UNC) lost Sat.
Amylf1: Agatha... you're question is next..
Buchemo:    Sorry
Nanceeeee:  Condolences....
Berrins:    (Thanks Deb- Blizzard here in NE knocked out cable)
Amylf1: can we stop a moment, please...group?
AlPerryNC:  Best sources: Networking. Talk to writers who have had work
Amylf1: we're trying to finish up a question and answer session w/Al...
Amylf1: let's finish w/the questions... and if there's time.. then please go
ahead w/your comments...
AlPerryNC:  Agatha?
AGATHA K:   Yes. The story online advisability in light of theft
Berrins:    ?
AlPerryNC:  Yes, sorry, I got sidetracked. My feeling is it's OK to put
samples of your work online.
AlPerryNC:  Make sure the copyright notice is on the piece.
Nanceeeee:  ?
Amylf1: okay... we're down to the last five minutes...
Amylf1: Jd.. you're next...
Jdfogg: Which is easier to get published. .a novel...or a short story,
(trying to decide which to
Jdfogg: concentrate on)  ga
AlPerryNC:  Was Berrins next?
Amylf1: nope
AlPerryNC:  Who?
Jdfogg: <--me
Berrins:    Is it presumptuous to submit illustrations along with a story?
AlPerryNC:  Ok, Jd, I'll dodge that one by saying what sells is something
that meets a perceived need.
Jdfogg: (well dodged)
AlPerryNC:  If I'm into buying short stories, I don't care about your novel.
Write what you write best.
Jdfogg: thank you
Amylf1: Buchemo...you're next..
AlPerryNC:  Illustrations? Presumptuous unless the illustrations are part of
the work. Thurber lives.
AGATHA K:   Thank you Amy & Al.
Buchemo:    I'm set for now =thanks.
Rhyssa2:    Last Call.  We have reached the magic hour of 7:00.
Amylf1: Nanceeee.. your question..
Nanceeeee:  Don't forget me...
AlPerryNC:  I'm sticking around...
Nanceeeee:  Great!   What about groups like this one....submitting original
work for critique..
Nanceeeee:  what copyright notice is needed?
AlPerryNC:  Groups like this are the best way for most of us to get rapid and
usually honest feedback.
AlPerryNC:  "Copyright 1997 Nanceeee. All rights reserved" is all you need.
(I'm not a lawyer!!!)
Amylf1: Nanceeeee... does that answer your question?
Nanceeeee:  Thank you.....I just have never needed that notification before
and didn't know what to put.
Nanceeeee:  Yes it does, Amy
Strebe: Nice to see you again, Al. Thanks for coming.
Amylf1: okay... that's the end of the question and answer period...
Berrins:    (Score- Ariz-59 Ken-56, 5:24 left)
Amylf1: it's free for all...now...
Jdfogg: Skizholmes said sorry she couldnít make it tonight.....
Amylf1: that's too bad...
Rhyssa2:    Thank you Al for being here.  Thank you Amy for running the show.
AlPerryNC:  I want to thank everyone. I hope it's been worthwhile.
Amylf1: yes it has...
Jdfogg: (she missed a good session)
Amylf1: let's give Al a big hand..
AlPerryNC:  Good to visit with old friends. I have missed you folks.
Rhyssa2:    I'll have to read the log.  I was to busy in the hall
Amylf1: ::::clap:::clap::::clap:::::
RMZWRITER:  <<<<<<<<<<<<clap clap>>>>>>>>>>
Jdfogg: Thank you Al ><><><><><><><><><><<<><><><><
AGATHA K:   Rhyssa2, thanks for the welcome earlier.
Rhyssa2:    :::applause:::
Nanceeeee:  Applause!  Applause!  What a rich, resonant speaking voice you
have, Al!
Berrins:    Thanks AL, sorry I stepped on some toes, got a little confused
Cafe Mom:   Guess what...one hand clapping doesn't make a sound after all.
Rhyssa2:    Your welcome Agatha
Jdfogg: <--counting piggies....all there
AlPerryNC:  Not at all. It was a lot quieter than my last time in the group
Sushiwritr: Whew! Missed the whole dang meeting . . .
Rhyssa2:    What's in the other hand, Leslie?
Cafe Mom:   sheesh
Sushiwritr: (Please send the log asap!)
Cafe Mom:   a beer, of course
Strebe: Ewww, Al. Don't remind me.
Amylf1: Paul... where were you?
Rhyssa2:    I will Paul
AlPerryNC:  Paul, I DIDN'T say anything.
Sushiwritr: The guys up front were taking the company network off line.
Cafe Mom:   writer can't write without gettin' liquored up first.
Berrins:    Yes; thanks, Debbie, for bouncing. Good work, and a lot of it!
Sushiwritr: No modem in this humble back office.
AlPerryNC:  That was mostly my fault, Daan....
Strebe: Writer can't liquor without getting written up first.
Buchemo:    It was worth while-controlled well -thatís important-thanks Amy
and Al!

Cafe Mom:   LOL, daan
RMZWRITER:  Yes, Deb...You had your work cut out for you tonight!
Sushiwritr: Leslie! Then how do I write?
Strebe: Hardly, Al! I admire your courage.
Cafe Mom:   I am not of this universe
Sushiwritr: OK, missed the second half of the meeting, then.
AlPerryNC:  Trailing Hale-Bopp?
Cafe Mom:   yep, Al
Cafe Mom:   It was beautiful tonight
Jdfogg: another space case???
AGATHA K:   What's LOL mean?
Rhyssa2:    Well, guys I'm closing the log for the last time.  It'll be in
mailboxes in a little
Amylf1: laughing out loud..
Jdfogg: Laugh Out Loud
AlPerryNC:  Laughing Out Loud. As in ROTFLOL.
Rhyssa2:    while.  Al, do you want a copy of the log?
Cafe Mom:   This is my first time online.  How does this work>
AlPerryNC:  Please....
Nanceeeee:  Rhyssa2, will I get one, too?
Rhyssa2:    Ok. :)
Strebe: Yah. And it's my first time at a computer.;
Sushiwritr: Choking . . .
AlPerryNC:  Leslie, surely you jest.... but let a grizzled old veteran show
Rhyssa2:    Yep. Nanceeeee
Shebajab1:  Al-could you clarify for me?
Amylf1: Leslie... are you really there... or is it someone from your family?
AGATHA K:   What's ROTF mean?
Strebe: Al, please don't clarify. You'll be too hard to see.
Cafe Mom:   LOL
Berrins:    (NCAA update- 65 AZ,  64 Ky, 3:28 left)
Nanceeeee:  Thanks!
AlPerryNC:  Cream rises to the top.
Jdfogg: <--getting the giggles...
Strebe: :::::: rising ::::::
Cafe Mom:   No, it's me, Amy...I'm just joshin'
Amylf1: heehehe
AlPerryNC:  Rolling On The Floor....
Rhyssa2:    Night All (or is that Nytol)?
Cafe Mom:   Seconal
AlPerryNC:  Abyssinnia.
Jdfogg: Valium of the Dolls
Sushiwritr: Absinthe.
Cafe Mom:   :-D
Amylf1: well... folks... I'm bushed....