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11/24/97 6:58:21 PM Opening "Chat Log 11/24/97"
Berrins: Mystery writer chatters, feel free to stay and chat with Jane
Yolen, who is guesting
Berrins: on our chat this next hour
URBAN H: Berrins, what's the chat?
Golf32750: Hi Jane
DRLIVES: Hi Jane, looking forward to tonight...
ANDIDVM: Stepping out of the room now. Good night!
JaneYolen: <And who has also written mysteries--for kids and short mystery
fiction for adults!
Note On: Night, Lillian.
URBAN H: Bye, Lillian!!**********
Berrins: Normally we discuss a members work, like you folks, but tonight
we have a special guest
PacoRug: Whats this room talking about?
Berrins: (who has beat us to the punch with a qucik bio of her own)
Berrins: We will be in protoccol, which means if anyone has a question for
Ms. yolen, please
JaneYolen: Hi--Wendie!
Berrins: type in a "?"
Berrins: Trina Pink, who has graciously
Berrins: offered to moderate, will call on you when it is your turn
Trina Pink: Hi, everybody!
DRLIVES: Hi Trina
Berrins: ::::handing the gavel to Trina::::::
Trina Pink: Thanks. Welcome, everyone. As Berrins said, Ms. Yolen has
neatly introduced herself!
Trina Pink: We're delighted to have her tonight.
JaneYolen: Well, I thought there was a more elegant intro. I was just trying
to hold on to the mystery fans!
Trina Pink: LOL...well, hopefully some of them can stay and hear you too.
Trina Pink: Do you want to make a few comments, or shall we jump right into Q
& A?
JaneYolen: I thought there was going to be a short piece put up, but if
not--let's just say that even with 200
JaneYolen: books out there, I still get rejections!
JaneYolen: GA
Trina Pink: That's encouraging! I think.
Trina Pink: Jane, most of us didn't get your short piece. Would you like to
recap quickly, or go from here?
JaneYolen: What it means is that we all get our knocks in the writing game,
but the professionals keep at it.
JaneYolen: As to the piece, it was from an article I wrote some time ago and
damned if I can remember what
JaneYolen: it's about! (GA)
Trina Pink: LOL. Well, let's go ahead and leap into questions then. Who
wants to go first?
Berrins: Jane, it was from your essay, "Turtles all the Way Down", and it
was the story
DRLIVES: ?
Berrins: about Will James, who had just given a lecture in Cambridge, and
an older
Berrins: woman, who confronts him afterwards
Berrins: ((should I type it out quickly?))
Trina Pink: Yes, please. At least a summary. Then we'll get on to DRLIVES.
JaneYolen: The article actually comes from a speech I used to give, and the
point is that in all writing it is
JaneYolen: really STORY all the way down.
Ken Lac: I"ll do it, Ber, Ive got the story open
Trina Pink: Thanks, Ken. :-)
Ken Lac: The famous philosopher WIll James had just finished giving a
lecture on the solar system
Ken Lac: in Cambridge, Massachusetts, when he was approached by an elderly
admirer.
Ken Lac: She was shaking her head and and her umbrella and looking very
stern. (P)
Ken Lac: "Mr. James," she admonished him, "I am shocked by your motion
Ken Lac: that we live on a ball rotating around the sun. That is patently
absurd."
Sushiwritr: (notion)
JaneYolen: Everyone's an editor!
Ken Lac: Politely, James waited, inclining his head toward her.
Ken Lac: "We live on a crust of earth on the back of a giant turtle," the
grande dame announced.
Ken Lac: (I'm just cutting and pasting, Jane!)
Ken Lac: James, ever gentle, asked, "If your...um...theory is correct,
madame,
Ken Lac: what does this turtle stand upon?"
Ken Lac: "The first turtle stands on the back of a second far larger
turtle, of course," the old woman replied.
Ken Lac: James lifted his hand. "Ah, madame, but what does this second
turtle stand upon?"
JaneYolen: It's NO GOOD, Mr. James, it's turtles all the way down!"
Ken Lac: And so it is with writing fantasy---whether books for adults or
children,
JaneYolen: I love that story!
Ken Lac: whether a plot revolving around elves or unicorns or travel
through time or
Berrins: Me too!
Ken Lac: angels stalking the earth or Chinese dragons having tea with
detectives.
Ken Lac: Each book stands on the back of story.
Ken Lac: And as the old lady in Cambridge would agree, it's no use---it's
story all the way down.
Ken Lac: ((END PASSAGE))
JaneYolen: Okay--ask away!
Trina Pink: Great Story, Jane! I'm glad we stopped to hear it.
Trina Pink: GA DRLIVES
DRLIVES: What do you think is the difference between a story that is
accepted and one that is
DRLIVES: rejected...based on your own experience../
JaneYolen: Cocky answer? About a thousand or more readers!
DRLIVES: lol
Trina Pink: LOL.
JaneYolen: But the other answer, the truer answer is that often there is not
a big difference. Sometimes it takes
JaneYolen: time to find your editor and your audience.
JaneYolen: And other times your story simply stinks. (Sometimes the
puiblished one stinks, too.)
JaneYolen: GA
Trina Pink: Who's next?
Berrins: ?
DRLIVES: ? If no one else...
Trina Pink: Anybody want to discuss the turtles?
Trina Pink: GA Berrins
JaneYolen: I'd like to add to that answer that many editors are no better at
choosing good stories than you are.
Berrins: How do you go about finding your illustrators for your children's
books?
JaneYolen: It's all a matter of taste.
JaneYolen: Oops--I guess that answer goes for each question. But actually,
the editors find the illustrators
JaneYolen: not the authors. GA
Trina Pink: GA DRLIVES
DRLIVES: What do you look for in a fantasy book...one that you enjoy
personally
JaneYolen: I look for munchy characters great writing (or is it munchy
writing and great characters.) It's hard
JaneYolen: to surprise me with plot any more. Though certain situations I
find very appealing. Like the
JaneYolen: Pullman books.
JaneYolen: GA
Trina Pink: More questions, folks?
Golf32750: ?
Trina Pink: GA Golf
Golf32750: What do you mean by munchy characters?
Sushiwritr: ?
JaneYolen: I mean characters that feel real and that I can get my teeth
into. Who feel palpable.
JaneYolen: GA
Trina Pink: GA Sushi (I Love "munchy," btw!)
Sushiwritr: I'm just reading your "White Jenna." Most fantasy tales are very
New Age. Comments?
GAWill: ?
JaneYolen: Whoa--I don't agree at all. By that do you mean crunch granola?
Do you mean eco-friendly? Do you mean
Sushiwritr: (In outlook and paganistic worlds)
JaneYolen: pyramids and colonic irrigation? Or do you mean that many fantasy
novels arfe dealing with the
JaneYolen: great ideas of good/evil,honor/truth words that I have called the
"pornography of innocence."
Sushiwritr: The "circle" of good and evil, etc. Opposite of CS Lewis and a
few others.
Murceil: ?
JaneYolen: Paganistic worlds. Hmmm. You mean like New York CIty or
Minneapolis? Or do you mean non-Christian?
Sushiwritr: LoL . Non. It's OK, just wondering.
JaneYolen: There are "Christian fantasy novels" being written and pubbed
these days as well.
Sushiwritr: By major houses?
JaneYolen: I also happen to be the Hans Jewish Andersen of America, so I am
afraid it's not an argument
Berrins: lol
JaneYolen: that worries me a lot! GA
Trina Pink: LOL...Jane, Sushi is our resident conservative. :-)
Trina Pink: GA GAWill
GAWill: Do you always know the ending before you start writing a story? GA
Sushiwritr: :-) (unorthodox too.)
JaneYolen: Well, what can you expect of raw fish! <g>
Trina Pink: (No offense, of course)
JaneYolen: None at all. I just find it an amusing concept. Different tastes.
Trina Pink: Jane, did you see GAWill's question, a few comments up?
JaneYolen: I rarely know the ending and I like to be surprised by it. Since
an ending should
JaneYolen: really be both surprising and inevitable, I think I should have
some of that surprise as well!
Murceil: pornography of innocence-a most ambiguous phrase-i like it
HlywdJoey: Good evening! This is my first visit. I'm seeking fellow
screenwriters to chat with.
JaneYolen: Well, I have done a couple of small screen plays. But not what
you would call a major thing.
GAWill: Thanks, Jane!
Trina Pink: Ready for the next question?
JaneYolen: (Trying to keep him/her here as well!)
Yehudit B: ?
JaneYolen: GA
Trina Pink: GA Murceil (LOL...good for you, Jane)
Murceil: pornography of innocense
Murceil: i like it
JaneYolen: Thanks!
SharmaUSA: ?
Trina Pink: GA Yehudit
Yehudit B: How many hours a day do you spend writing?
JaneYolen: As many as I can---short answer.
JaneYolen: Long answer is different:
JaneYolen: I am at my desk usually up to ten hours a day, but much of it is
business these days.
JaneYolen: That is one of the drawbacks of success. (I know, no one pities
me for that!) But it is nonetheless
JaneYolen: true. I get fan mail and requests and queries and revisions and
etc. etc. bloody etc.
JaneYolen: GA
Trina Pink: GA Sharma
SharmaUSA: Jane, how has the writing process changed for you, over the
years? Do you ...
SharmaUSA: ... craft stories differently now than when you started? ga
DRLIVES: ?
JaneYolen: Sharma: I still adore the writing. It's the business I cannot
stand. As for the craft
JaneYolen: I think I am better (God, I hope so!) and I am more relaxed about
most of the things I write, knowing
JaneYolen: I will be able to complete them. Not all, though. I have a
pre-Raphaelite novel I have been meaning
JaneYolen: to get to for about five years now and don't think I am good
enough. I have A.S. Byatt on the brain,
JaneYolen: you see. And that stops me cold. I think she should write it, not
me.
JaneYolen: GA
Trina Pink: GA DRLIVES
DRLIVES: Do you have a method/system for tracking plot development,
character development, etc
Strebe: ?
JaneYolen: Yes--it's called re-reading. I am not being facetious. That's
what I do--reread to get into the voice
JaneYolen: of the book and the characters all over again.
Berrins: reread aloud?
JaneYolen: As to plot, isn't that what copy editors are for???? And
husbands? <g> GA
DRLIVES: How do you avoid obsession with re-reading?
JaneYolen: Yes I read out loud most of the time. GA
Trina Pink: GA Strebe
Golf32750: ?
JaneYolen: Obession? What makes you think I avoid obsession? GA
DRLIVES: lol
Strebe: Why is writing important to you? Do you care what your readers get
out of it?
Strebe: GA
JaneYolen: I am a storyteller. I think storytelling is what distinguishes us
from animals, It is a most human
JaneYolen: activity. That's why I am obsessive. And yes I care tremendously
that my readers get it, but I will
JaneYolen: never write down or write badly in order for them to "get" it. If
they have to stretch, fine. GA
Trina Pink: GA Golf
Golf32750: Is there one major pitfall that writers fall into
Strebe: Hmph. I always got in trouble when I told stories.
DRLIVES: <g>
JaneYolen: Probably lack of details. I see a lot of bad or junior writing,
in which the details are not there.
Berrins: ?
JaneYolen: You don't need a LOT of details, but the difference between
saying "She went outside. It was cold." and
JaneYolen: "She went outside and the minute she was away from the comfort of
the house, the cold air struck her
JaneYolen: cheeks like a slap." is enormous. GA
Golf32750: You are saying "show" not "tell"
JaneYolen: Always.
Trina Pink: GA Berrins
Berrins: You have said research is very important in fantasy, both in
place and in use of
Berrins: creatures like elves and such
Berrins: when do you begin to depart from what you have learned and what
you create?
Ken Lac: ?
JaneYolen: The problem with most new writrs of fantasy is that they read
only recent books and never primary
JaneYolen: materials. Read the old folklore before you indulge in fakelore.
Then you will begin to get
JaneYolen: fantasy right! As to departing from what you learn--one of the
things you learn from folklore
Sushiwritr: ?
JaneYolen: is how many different ways there are to write an elf! (And almost
all of them nasty, amoral, aloof.)
Berrins: fakelore vs folklore - like it! GA
JaneYolen: Kipling had a poem about that, the 9 and 90 ways of constructing
tribal lays! GA
Trina Pink: GA Ken
Ken Lac: Rhetorical question: What are your reasons for finding fantasy
important?
JaneYolen: (Fakelore is not my term, but the folklorist Dorson's, and he was
not using it to be nice!)
Ken Lac: (or is that an essay question?)
JaneYolen: An essay question. A rhetorical question would mean you were
planning to answer it yourself!
Ken Lac: Essay away, please: I have no answers!
JaneYolen: I have written essays on it, and couldn't give you a one word
answer., Read my book TOUCH MAGIC.
JaneYolen: Which is--alas OP--but you can find it in libraries.\
Trina Pink: GA Sushi
Sushiwritr: Could you please name a few of the most influential "primary"
writers?
Derbyday1: ?
JaneYolen: Get your hands on folk tale collections: Grimms, of course.
Asbjornsen & Moe for the Norwegian.
JaneYolen: Afanesev for the Russian. Pantheon has a series of folk tale
collections. (One of which--I say without
JaneYolen: embarassment--is my FAVORITE FOLK TALES AROUND THE WORLD.
University of Chicago has a brilliant line
Golf32750: ?
JaneYolen: of books. There are wonderful collections of feminist fairy
tales. I am working on GRAY HEROES
JaneYolen: for Viking about folk tales starring elderly heroes. Anything put
together by Jack Zipes. For
JaneYolen: starters!
JaneYolen: GA
Sushiwritr: <thanks!>
Trina Pink: GA Golf (Derby's been bumped!)
Golf32750: Any special place to look for Irish Folklore
JaneYolen: Pantheon and UChicago both have Irish collections.
Yehudit B: ?
Trina Pink: GA Yehudit
Yehudit B: How about Chasidic tales for children?
JaneYolen: There are a number of wonderful Jewish/Yiddish tales--try Barbara
Diamond Goldin's books, Howard
JaneYolen: (oops lost his last name), Penina Schram. GA
Trina Pink: What a great list of folklore, Jane! Can't wait to get to the
library!
Yehudit B: I've herd of Penina
Trina Pink: Queue's empty, BTW, Folks.
Berrins: ?
Trina Pink: GA Berrins
JaneYolen: Penina is one of the world's great storytellers, and she's put
together several books including
JaneYolen: many of the stories she tells. If you heare she's in your area,
go, go, go and listen. You will be
JaneYolen: giving yourself a treat!
Berrins: Do you try and create totally new characters for every book you
write, or do you ever
Berrins: find yourself "borrowing" characters from previous books
Berrins: GA
JaneYolen: Well, if I am doing a series (like Commander Toad) of course the
characters will be the same. But if I
JaneYolen: do other books, I always try to do something new and interesting.
I mean--I have to be kept
JaneYolen: interested and I have a very low threshold of boredom!
Berrins: ?
Strebe: ?
JaneYolen: But I do find myself borrowing phrases from myself every once in
a while. I hate it when that happens!
Trina Pink: GA Berrins
Berrins: Does the "malling" of bookselling terrify you as it does most of
us?
Strebe: Hey. I'm not terrified.
JaneYolen: I try very hard to do my book signings in Independent stores. The
mall stories do not need me.
Berrins: (I miss the Globe) GA
JaneYolen: I am not 100% on that. For example, my daughter lives in Myrtle
Beach and there's B&N there--and Christian
JaneYolen: bookstores. So I go and sign at B&N.
Trina Pink: GA Strebe (LOL)
Strebe: No... I abdicate. Next, please.
SharmaUSA: ?
Trina Pink: GA Sharma (LOL, Daan)
Strebe: Oh, I remember: ?
SharmaUSA: GA
Trina Pink: ROFL...GA, Daan.
Strebe: Do you engage in word play in your books, Ms. Yolen?
Berrins: ?
JaneYolen: Somebody go ahead! We're running out of time.
Strebe: Some authors seem very, very fond of 'transparent' writing.
Sushiwritr: (Actually we're the last group for the day-
Sushiwritr: It's OK if we go long.)
Strebe: I like wordplay.
JaneYolen: Moi? Word play? The woman who invented Commander Toad in the good
ship Star Warts? Heavens forfend.
Strebe: I see so little of it.
Strebe: <--- illiterate
JaneYolen: You are already two hours past my bedtime!
Strebe: <--- never read Commander Toad
Strebe: Thank you. GA
Trina Pink: (Yes, But Sushi...poor Jane's on Eastern time!)
Sushiwritr: LoL
Trina Pink: GA Berrins...last question.
Berrins: You write children's, young adult, adult books- do you decide
your audience first
Berrins: or write the story, then decide in the reread?
JaneYolen: I write my story--and then decide. Though obviously Commander
Toad is not for adults. But I have written
JaneYolen: a lot of stories that have been published both as adult and as
children's. And all of my adult
JaneYolen: novels have been taken over by YAs. BRIAR ROSE,
JaneYolen: written and pubbed for adults, is a YA best seller.
JaneYolen: And--I have to admit--a lot of adults like Commander Toad.
Strebe: YA?
Wendie Old: Young Adult
JaneYolen: Young Adult.
Berrins: <<ribit>>
JaneYolen: Toadally awful.
Topianno: Hey Matt
Topianno: Whats up, Its Gabe
JaneYolen: Is this an alternate universe?
Trina Pink: Well, I had a question of my own...but we're out of time. :-(
Trina Pink: Perhaps another time.
Berrins: we prefer the term, "complementary" universe
JaneYolen: Please note how my typing is degenerating.
Trina Pink: Jane, this was great. Thank you very much for staying up late
for us.
Strebe: Out of time? We have five more minutes.
Strebe: Four now.
JaneYolen: We DID start late! So ask away Trina!
DRLIVES: Oh, Trina, you of all people should get to ask your question
Ken Lac: The alternate universe is 5 minutes ahead.
Trina Pink: Really? My turn?
Ken Lac: GA Trina.
DRLIVES: ga
Trina Pink: Well, (stuttering slightly)...
Trina Pink: do you write differently for adults vs. children vs. YA? How so?
Strebe: ?
JaneYolen: I actually don't write differently, but the subject matter
dictates the style, not the age of the
JaneYolen: audience. However, I am known as a "literary" writer, meaning my
books tend to stretch my
JaneYolen: readers' vocabulary and interest. (I hope.) To some people that
is what is wrong with the way I write.
Trina Pink: So you don't downgrade the vocabulary or sentence length, etc?
JaneYolen: So what I see as virtue, they see as. . .well, not vice, but not
a positive thing.
Ken Lac: Literary writer ought to be a redundancy, but as we know... ;-/
Strebe: ?
JaneYolen: I never downgrade. And I fight editors to keep vocabulary! My la
test book, CHILD OF FAERIE I even made
JaneYolen: up a word "flabberghast". Or if I didn't make it up, I reinvented
it. And fought to keep it in!
Trina Pink: I LOVE flabberghast.
Trina Pink: Well, I agree with you. Jane, will you take Strebe's question?
Last one (honestly, this time!)?
JaneYolen: In my new lullaby book I DID invent a word: hullabalooning.
Sushiwritr: I'm flabberghasted to hear that. Right on!
JaneYolen: Strebe--strike on.
Strebe: I was just wondering if Ms. Yolen likes cashews. I have a surplus at
the moment.
Trina Pink: (ROFL like a fool...hullabalooning, indeed)
Strebe: GA
JaneYolen: I love cashews. But I like almonds more.
Strebe: Okay. I'll endeavor to encourage a surplus of almonds.
Trina Pink: Hee hee...snicker, snicker...guffaw. Cashews, indeed!
Strebe: Thank you.
Strebe: And good night.
Trina Pink: Well, let's say our thanks.
JaneYolen: Just the cash would do.
DRLIVES: Nuts!!!
Trina Pink: Jane, you were delightful.
JaneYolen: Fun to be here. Invite me back. At an earlier time!
JaneYolen: <G>
SharmaUSA: Thanks, Jane.
DRLIVES: Jane, enjoyed it lots..%->
Ken Lac: Thank you Jan
Ken Lac: e
Sushiwritr: Thanks muchly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JaneYolen: E says welcome.
DRLIVES: And a hallabalooning good night
JaneYolen: That's too big for me.
Trina Pink: LOL, Jane.
JaneYolen: Good night all. Happy turkey.
Berrins: A thousand thanks (sorry, they all won't fit on this line...)
Trina Pink: Gobble, gobble back at you.
SharmaUSA: Good night. Am also on east coast.
Ken Lac: (is that the E that Annie Proulx just lost?)
Berrins: Hope your dreams are full of almonds
Trina Pink: LOL, Ken
DRLIVES: <<<thanks to Trina>>>>
DRLIVES: good job
Trina Pink: Wow, this was fun. I see jane's off to beddy-bie.
Trina Pink: Thanks, DR.
Berrins: Paul, just to remind us, who is on for next week?
SharmaUSA: 'Night all. Thanks Trina.
Sushiwritr: Will close the Log. You can goof off now. Hullabaloon a bit, even.
Mstrebe: Bye
Berrins: Hi and bye, Matt
DRLIVES: See you all next week...we have a submission, right?
Berrins: Thanks, Trina, you done good
DRLIVES: Was it Paul?
Trina Pink: Thanks again, everyone. This was delightful.
Mstrebe: Trina--does your schedule allow more time for monday nights?
Mstrebe: (mine will soon)
Sushiwritr: I'll go next week.
Sushiwritr: Judy the week after.
Trina Pink: Well...I'm not scheduling ANYTHING until after the baby comes!
Berrins: I hope Judy will be able to make her own chat!
Sushiwritr: Trina is a guest, not a member now.
Mstrebe: Good idea. I think I'll adopt that tactic, and I'm not even
pregnant.
DRLIVES: great...Happy turkey day to everyone
DRLIVES: bye
Sushiwritr: However, we're always accepting applications.
Berrins: yes, everyone eat too much- its allowed, and even encouraged/
Mstrebe: Bye!
Berrins: good night one and all- its been a great two weeks, see you next-
and thanks to daan
Berrins: and Paul for bouncing
Sushiwritr: Bye all.
11/24/97 8:15:41 PM Closing "Chat Log 11/24/97"
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